{"id":2160,"date":"2017-01-15T04:00:39","date_gmt":"2017-01-15T09:00:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/?p=2160"},"modified":"2016-11-04T16:42:38","modified_gmt":"2016-11-04T20:42:38","slug":"persimmon-rough-cut","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/","title":{"rendered":"Persimmon – Rough Cut"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Geographic Distribution<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Persimmon, formally known as Diospyros virginiana<\/em>, is a true North American native.  It has a rather extensive native range in the eastern United States.  Specifically, D. virginiana <\/em>is natively found from southern Connecticut and New York’s Long Island to southern Florida; westward through central Pennsylvania, southern Ohio, southern Indiana, and central Illinois to southeast Iowa; and south through eastern Kansas and Oklahoma to the Valley of the Colorado River in Texas.  It does not grow, however, in the main range of the Appalachian Mountains, nor in much of the oak-hickory forest type on the Allegheny Plateau. Its best development is in the rich bottom lands of the Mississippi River and its tributaries and in coastal river valleys. It is exceedingly common in the South Atlantic and Gulf States, often covering abandoned fields with a shrubby growth, and springing up by the sides of roads and fences. It is often the first tree species to start growth on abandoned and denuded cropland. It is well adapted to an environment of high insolation and low water supply.<\/p>\n

In addition to its native areas, D. virginiana<\/em> has been successfully planted as far west as California and Utah, although it is not known to readily naturalize in these areas.  In addition, as early as the 17th<\/sup> century, D. virginiana<\/em> was exported to the British Isles where it is successfully grown adjacent to the English Channel where winters are mild enough for it to prosper, although the highly desirable fruits often do not ripen to edible status in this area.<\/p>\n

\"Persimmon

Persimmon Exterior<\/p><\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

Those familiar with genus names of trees will readily recognize Diospyros <\/em>as the genus of the “true” Ebonies.  I think it would surprise many wood workers, and it certainly surprised me, to learn that a relatively common fruit tree native to the Americas is actually an Ebony, although as will soon be clear, you wouldn’t know it by looking at most of the wood from the tree.<\/p>\n

For the sake of simplicity, I will refer to D. virginiana <\/em>from this point forward simply as Persimmon.<\/p>\n

General Characteristics<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Persimmon almost always features very wide sapwood, in fact, most trees unless they have reached great age, at least 100 years or more, display essentially only sapwood.  The sapwood is of a white to pale yellowish-brown color.  As is not uncommon, this color will tend to darken with age and exposure to ultra-violet light sources.<\/p>\n

The heartwood of the Persimmon, when and where it occurs, is almost always very thin, rarely more than 1” wide.  This heartwood betrays the character of the genus Diospyros<\/em> in that it is of a very dark brown to black color, similar to the Gabon Ebony most wood workers think of when they hear the term “ebony” or “Diospyros<\/em>”.<\/p>\n

The grain of Persimmon is generally straight.  The texture is most often even and described as being of a medium to coarse character.<\/p>\n

Persimmon end-grain is usually characterized as porous, with pores ranging from large to small depending on the stage of development.  The pores are arranged in a semi-ring format.<\/p>\n

Growth rings are usually distinct in Persimmon but the rays are not visible without a lens.<\/p>\n

Most true Ebony wood is quite resistant to rot and insect attack, but this refers only to the heartwood characteristics.  Because Persimmon almost always presents as practically all sapwood, it is rated as perishable in terms of rot resistance and it is also susceptible to insect attack.<\/p>\n

Working Characteristics<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Persimmon wood presents a mixed bag of sorts in terms of its workability.  In general, Persimmon is reasonable to work with hand powered tools, but electrically powered or otherwise motor driven tools can encounter unexpected difficulties.<\/p>\n

Persimmon is especially difficult to plane, so hand planes are probably a better bet.<\/p>\n

Given that Persimmon is almost completely sapwood, it blunts cutting edges surprisingly quickly, although this should be expected from a true Ebony wood.  As is so often the case, sharp tools, frequent sharpening, and patience will be rewarded when working with Persimmon.<\/p>\n

On the plus side, Persimmon is an excellent turning wood.<\/p>\n

Persimmon also finishes well.<\/p>\n

\"Persimmon

Persimmon Interior<\/p><\/div>\n

Pricing and Availability<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Persimmon is rarely, if ever, sold in dimensional lumber formats.  More commonly, although still unusual, Persimmon is sold as turning spindles and blocks for bowl making.<\/p>\n

One should expect Persimmon prices to be high when compared to other domestic woods and this is because Persimmon is slow growing, so it takes many years to reach a harvestable size.  In addition, most Persimmon trees are cultivated for fruit, not for wood, so it is not commonly harvested commercially or processed outside of specialty or hobbyist mills.<\/p>\n

Persimmon is most commonly sold in its native areas and prices for imported wood will be much higher or simply unavailable.<\/p>\n

In this blog, I almost always recommend several vendors with whom I have done considerable business and in whom I have great confidence.  These vendors are: West Penn Hardwoods<\/a>, Bell Forest Products<\/a>, NC Wood<\/a>, Got Wood?<\/a>, and WoodTurningz<\/a>.<\/p>\n

However, of these fine vendors only NC Wood currently sells Persimmon turning stock and they sell both spindle and bowl blank sizes.  The largest bowl blank offered is an impressive 10” x 10” x 4” that sells for $23.  All other bowl blank sizes are smaller and cheaper.  The spindle sizes, up to 2” x 2” x 24” are all priced in the single digits.<\/p>\n

\"Persimmon

Persimmon Reverse<\/p><\/div>\n

I find that this rather clearly indicates the limited availability even within the natural range of the wood (I am located in northwestern Georgia).<\/p>\n

Woodfinder <\/a>is an excellent website that is dedicated to advertising wood dealers.  In your search for Persimmon, this can be an invaluable resource provided you use multiple search terms to capture all the possible listings.  I can’t speak to the quality of any of the listed dealers, but Woodfinder does have the advantage of allowing searches to be performed based on location which might allow an interested buyer to visit a listed wood dealer in person to hand pick pieces at a comfortable price.<\/p>\n

A significant problem with using Woodfinder is that many vendors are listed for woods that, upon further investigation, they do not offer.  I don’t know if perhaps once they did and they didn’t update their listings or if some vendors use a standardized list of woods that include most everything conceivable with the idea that once you land on their page you will find something you want to buy even if you didn’t know it beforehand.  It happens to me all the time!<\/p>\n

Uses<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Because of its limited availability in lumber formats, the most common use of Persimmon is in the making of turned objects on the wood lathe.<\/p>\n

One particularly special use of Persimmon is in the manufacture of golf club heads due to the extreme hardness of Persimmon, some 1,000 Janka hardness units harder than ither Ash or Hickory, two well-known and hard North American woods used for baseball bats and tool handles, both applications which require strength and hardness.<\/p>\n

Persimmon may also occasionally be used as veneer or in other small specialty wood applications that take advantage of its hardness.<\/p>\n

The most common use of Persimmon is not for wood at all but rather for its distinctive orange-red fruits which are extremely sweet when ripe although notoriously astringent when green.  The fruit, once ripe, is quite perishable so it is not commonly sold commercially but those who have access to trees enjoy these sweet natural treats fresh and in baked goods.<\/p>\n

Sustainability<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Persimmon is not listed as being in any way threatened or endangered by the Convention in International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) Appendices<\/a> nor does it appear on the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) Red List<\/a>.<\/p>\n

To the best of my knowledge, Persimmon is not subject to any special restrictions by any United States government agency.<\/p>\n

I realize that inherent in working with wood is the killing of a part of the natural world that may be slow to return and if I become deeply concerned about this fact, I will have to find a new hobby.  I hope that such a time does not come to pass or at least not any time soon.  In part because I am concerned about legally and responsibly obtained wood, I am reluctant to buy from sellers outside of well-established and known vendors.  I am highly unlikely, for example, to purchase any wood from auction sites, such as Ebay<\/a>, because of uncertain sourcing and documentation, as well as the potential, even likelihood, of material being misidentified in order to achieve a higher selling price.<\/p>\n

However, due to the commercial scarcity of some domestic woods, resorting to auction sites such as Ebay or Etsy<\/a> may be the only way to obtain some desirable domestic, or in some cases exotic imported, species that are not routinely commercially harvested.  The potential risks of buying in these marketplaces have to be balanced against the desire to work with a specific species of wood.  That is inherently an individual decision.<\/p>\n

I also realize that many, if not most, wood workers do not have endangered species lists memorized, therefore I think it worthwhile and important to do even a small amount of research before purchasing any lumber, domestic as well as imported, to be certain of the potential impact you are having, even in a small way, on threatened or endangered populations.  This information is easy to come by and takes only minutes to locate through any Internet search engine, including those you can access on your phone as you are standing in the lumber yard or store.  Unfortunately, you simply cannot count on a vendor to tell you a product they are selling is endangered.<\/p>\n

Health Hazards<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Although severe reactions are quite uncommon, Persimmon has been reported to cause skin irritation in some sensitive individuals.<\/p>\n

In addition, the long-term negative effects of exposure to sawdust of any species are well documented.<\/p>\n

It is important to remember that although many people may, or may not, be sensitive to any given wood, the only experience that truly counts is your own, so use reported side effects as guidance but not as a substitute for cautious and safe practices.<\/p>\n

Appropriate protective equipment is therefore always recommended when working with this, or any other, wood, exotic or domestic, unless you have worked with the species before and are certain you are not sensitive to it.<\/p>\n

Complete information about health hazards<\/a> associated with a wide variety of exotic hardwoods is available from The Wood Database<\/a>.  Additional information about how to best use a dust collection system and personal protective equipment, such as respirators, can also be found through this excellent and comprehensive resource<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Fortunately, I experienced no negative side effects when working with Persimmon.<\/p>\n

My Personal Experiences                        <\/strong><\/h2>\n

In contrast to most of the woods I write about, I have not completed a piece using Persimmon.  Rather, I have rough cut a large bowl blank of 10” x 4” in size and am waiting for it to finish drying before making the final cuts.<\/p>\n

When I started with this piece, it was a well waxed square that I had to cut to round on the bandsaw which was without event.  The wood was very wet!  I measured it at 30% moisture content on the surface so I would imagine the interior was even wetter yet.<\/p>\n

I rough cut the bowl blank being sure to leave generous material for later final cuts, following a 10% rule, whereby I left at least 10% of the original dimensions to allow for distortion in drying.<\/p>\n

The Persimmon cut extremely rough, almost chunky, unlike any other wood I have turned, although I admit that I do not have extensive experience in green wood turning.  I found a significant degree of spalt to be present, not uncommon in a wood this wet and soft.  In addition, there was an easily discernible ribbon of fibrous material that was extremely tough, quite unlike anything I have ever seen.  It is almost as if a ribbon of a different species was growing within this tree, or as though some fibers decided to grow in the opposite direction from the majority, or even as though there was a bit of root embedded in the sapwood.  Again, I have never encountered anything like it and I do not know if this is a characteristic of Persimmon, having never worked with the wood before, or it I just got “lucky” in this particular piece.  I imagine I will know more as I proceed to the final cuts and finishing.<\/p>\n

I rough cut this bowl blank back in March 2016 and it is now November 2016.  I thoroughly coated the blank in Anchor Seal<\/a> and set it aside after allowing the Anchor Seal to dry.  Eight months later I find that there is some small amount of surface white mold on the blank but I do not notice any marked distortions or checking at this time.  The blank has lost over one pound of water weight in the eight months it has been drying and I have taken weight measurements roughly monthly to check its progress toward being dry enough to finish.  The blank has stopped losing weight and I intend soon to work it again.  If it shows signs of continuing high levels of moisture I can always re-coat it with Anchor Seal and allow it to dry more, or if it seems dry I can proceed to finish it.<\/p>\n

I have read recently that even wet woods can be cut to final thickness and finished with Shellawax<\/a>.  It is reported that the Shellawax will slow drying to such a degree that even notoriously difficult to dry, without checking, tropical hardwoods can be successfully treated with this method, so I may try that approach if needed.  That would be convenient as I often use Shellawax as a final finish regardless.  And no, this report does not come from the makers of Shellawax, but instead from an exotic wood dealer located in the very dry high desert areas of Colorado who has used this method extensively and with success on some very rare and very expensive pieces.<\/p>\n

I will, of course, provide an update on the final finishing of this piece once I complete it, hopefully within the next month or so.  If interested, and how I hope that at least one person is interested, stay tuned.<\/p>\n

As always, I wish all my readers a great experience in whatever their wood working interests happen to be and to those who like working with lathes especially, do a good turn today!<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The Persimmon cut extremely rough, almost chunky, unlike any other wood I have turned, although I admit that I do not have extensive experience in green wood turning. I found a significant degree of spalt to be present, not uncommon in a wood this wet and soft. In addition, there was an easily discernible ribbon of fibrous material that was extremely tough, quite unlike anything I have ever seen. It is almost as if a ribbon of a different species was growing within this tree, or as though some fibers decided to grow in the opposite direction from the majority, or even as though there was a bit of root embedded in the sapwood. Again, I have never encountered anything like it and I do not know if this is a characteristic of Persimmon, having never worked with the wood before, or it I just got \u201clucky\u201d in this particular piece. I imagine I will know more as I proceed to the final cuts and finishing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":175,"featured_media":2161,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[128,138,139,130],"tags":[154,168,171,181,183,195,200,204,210,217,239,240,247],"yoast_head":"\nPersimmon - Rough Cut - Wood Turning Pens ..<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I rough cut a bowl blank of Persimmon, a member of the true Ebony woods, and encountered a ribbon of very tough material, unique in my experience, thus far.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Persimmon - Rough Cut - Wood Turning Pens ..\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I rough cut a bowl blank of Persimmon, a member of the true Ebony woods, and encountered a ribbon of very tough material, unique in my experience, thus far.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Wood Turning Pens ..\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-01-15T09:00:39+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2016-11-04T20:42:38+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/Persimmon-Exterior.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1024\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1365\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Wood_Pens\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Wood_Pens\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"12 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/\",\"name\":\"Persimmon - Rough Cut - Wood Turning Pens ..\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2017-01-15T09:00:39+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2016-11-04T20:42:38+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#\/schema\/person\/47069a73b7e6a2ceecce4976634520fe\"},\"description\":\"I rough cut a bowl blank of Persimmon, a member of the true Ebony woods, and encountered a ribbon of very tough material, unique in my experience, thus far.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Persimmon – Rough Cut\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/\",\"name\":\"Wood Turning Pens ..\",\"description\":\"Wood Turned into Art\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#\/schema\/person\/47069a73b7e6a2ceecce4976634520fe\",\"name\":\"Wood_Pens\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/author\/wood_pens\/\"}]}<\/script>\n","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Persimmon - Rough Cut - Wood Turning Pens ..","description":"I rough cut a bowl blank of Persimmon, a member of the true Ebony woods, and encountered a ribbon of very tough material, unique in my experience, thus far.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Persimmon - Rough Cut - Wood Turning Pens ..","og_description":"I rough cut a bowl blank of Persimmon, a member of the true Ebony woods, and encountered a ribbon of very tough material, unique in my experience, thus far.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/","og_site_name":"Wood Turning Pens ..","article_published_time":"2017-01-15T09:00:39+00:00","article_modified_time":"2016-11-04T20:42:38+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1024,"height":1365,"url":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/Persimmon-Exterior.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Wood_Pens","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Wood_Pens","Est. reading time":"12 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/","url":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/","name":"Persimmon - Rough Cut - Wood Turning Pens ..","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#website"},"datePublished":"2017-01-15T09:00:39+00:00","dateModified":"2016-11-04T20:42:38+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#\/schema\/person\/47069a73b7e6a2ceecce4976634520fe"},"description":"I rough cut a bowl blank of Persimmon, a member of the true Ebony woods, and encountered a ribbon of very tough material, unique in my experience, thus far.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/persimmon-rough-cut\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Persimmon – Rough Cut"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/","name":"Wood Turning Pens ..","description":"Wood Turned into Art","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/#\/schema\/person\/47069a73b7e6a2ceecce4976634520fe","name":"Wood_Pens","url":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/author\/wood_pens\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2160"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/175"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2160"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2160\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2161"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2160"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2160"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.woodturningpens.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2160"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}